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to customer service. wbal tv 11 news lisa robinson explains. >> hopefully you'll have great customer service this holiday shopping season. that wasn't always the case for our secret shopper. with the eye team's hidden camera rolling we sent her to a dozen stores in the baltimore area. she'll make purchases and give us her overall opinions of the experience including the help she receives and the cleanliness of the stores and ladies room. some places got it right. >> service was excellent. i told her it was a gift. she gave me a little bag, gift receipt. pleasant. >> other places, she thought some of them weren't so good. >> i would have walked out the door in such a shamble of store. >> monday at 11:00 see which stores the secret shopper peoples the best and which didn't cut it. for the 11 news eye team, i'm lisa robinson. >>> accused in the fort hood shooting faces a judge from his hospital bed. why that hearing sparked outrage looking for new answers to help treat disaster survivors. the possible lynx between ptsd and genes. >>> and i'm tony pann. we're watching a storm system coming out o
. >> here to discuss it is lisa bloom and wendy murphy.i'll macvicar, cbs news. >> here to discuss it is lisa bloom and wendy murphy.l'll macvicar, cbs news. >> here to discuss it is lisa bloom and wendy murphy.a macvicar, cbs news. >> here to discuss it is lisa bloom and wendy murphy. and a professor of forensic science. good morning to everybody. >> lisa i'll start with you. you've been following the case since day one. have the prosecutors prendsented by a stron enough case? >> i don't think so under the american rules. i think the evidence against her is weak. let's start with motive. prosecutors said that her motive for killing her british roommate was severally that her roommate had call her proceed miss could you us. that doesn't sound to me like enough of a reason to stab and murder somebody. it's very rare that a woman would sexually assault another woman. it does happen but it's extremely unusual. that's the claim here. the forensic evidence is weak. overall, i don't think she did it and i don't think the prosecutors have proved their case. >> wendy, as a
on thursday but for some tables and chairs are empty. to make sure this all changes we're going to watch lisa joyner and tim green's new show. it's a new show called "find my family and tim." this show tonight i have a feeling will be a tear jerker gut wrencher, am i right? >> you're like a psyche, jamie. >> most people will cry. if you have any propensity to cry, you'll cry. the great thing about it is it's tears of joy. that's the thing that we love so much about the show, how often do you get to see something so emotional, so wonderful that it actually brings tears of joy to you? >> both of you are adopted? so this is near and dear and when they approached you to do this you both jumped at it? >> i told them i would lay my body in front of a truck if i did not get this job. yes, it's a passion project. don't you think? i mean, this is something we would have done almost for free. >> we both know how much it means when you're conducting a search like this to be able to find your biological parents. and other family members. we know what it feels like. we know how emotional it is. we know a
lisa robinson. >> i am an deadbeat winner. let's look outside. ->> we are trying to get through some clouds parted they will not be rainmakers. the sun will come in and it will be a fairly nice day. >> we are planning on it. >> we started off chilly this morning. we are warming up at this stage 3. . the clouds are coming from a system down south. as i show you on the wider view, you can see areas of rain associated with the storm but they are well south of us today. that's where the rain will stay. we will see clouds come up into the area but we will see some rain break and reasonably good temperatures. i will have details in a minute. >> mayor sheila dixon's date has been put on hold for several days. jurors went home for the weekend without a verdict. we have some questions they have asked and what attorneys on both sides are saying. >> mayor sheila dixon walked from the rear of the courthouse to city hall at the end of the day parade her guilt or innocence was still undecided. she says she intends to spend the weekend between work and personal activity before resuming the nail bit
consumers, it's a business' customer service that makes them stand out. 11 news i-team reporter lisa robinson has more on how some local retailers are faring. >> hopefully you'll have great customer service this holiday shopping season, but that wasn't always the case for our secret shopper. with the i-team's hidden camera rolling we sent her to a dozen stores in the baltimore area. she'll make purchases, and then give us her overall opinion of the experience, including the help she receives and the cleanliness of the stores and ladies' rooms. some places got it right. >> service was excellent. i told her it was a gift. she gave me a little bag a gift receipt. absolutely pleasant. >> other places? well, she thought some of them weren't so good. >> i would have walked out the door. it's in such a shambles this store. >> see which stores the secret shopper feels was the best and which ones just didn't cut it in the customer service test. for the 11 news i-team, i'm lisa robinson. >> now your 11 insta-weather plus forecast with sarah caldwell. >> hope you're doing well on this monday. a
x late breaking, this is doubly -- wbal. >> i am lisa robbins. >> our top stories in a moment but let's look outside with our meteorologist. >> good morning. temperatures this morning around the city dropped below the freezing point. it may have done in a few of your favorite plants. the days are getting shorter and everything else. we have to look forward to cooler weather for a while. today we will see a warming trend. we will reverse the trend we have had for the last couple of days. yesterday's high was only around 52 degrees. we will do better than that during the day today. the closest storms have been a couple of sprinkles and showers with mixed precipitation in upstate new york. the real stormy weather is coming off the pacific ocean in the pacific northwest where they are having rain in the lower elevations. not much going on. the warming trend will be welcome and we will talk about that and a few minutes. -- in a few minutes. >> baltimore mayor sheila dixon talks exclusively to 11 years. she spoke about her commitment to the business of the city as her top priority.
by constellation energy group] >> welcome to "11 news sunday morning." i'm lisa robinson. >> and i'm deborah weiner in for kate amara. our top stories in jome. first a look outside with john collins. >> an indicator, i didn't have to scrape the windshield this morning. temperatures are above freezing, not below freezing. in addition to the chilly air we have, we have a hurricane moving into the gulf of mexico. still the tropical storm and hurricane season. still winter -- hardly winter-like at this stage. we are headed toward spring-like weather. more on that in a mome. as we were yesterday morning, storm-free around the mid-atlantic region. i have had to resort the national radar imaginary to show you where the storms are. a little bit more action in the pacific northwest as yesterday. northern plains. also up in the state of maine and the maritime provinces of canada. here's the rain sorted with ida moving into the gulf of mexico. we'll talk about these weather systems and how at the moment they are not affecting us at all. see you in a few minutes. >> the house of representatives -- >> the ameri
becomes to holiday shopping, so for many customers it is a service that the stands out. >> lisa robinson has more on somehow -- on how some local retailers are fairing. >> with the hidden camera rolling, we sent her to a dozen stores in the baltimore area to make purchases and then give us her overall experience opinion. including the help she received and the cleanliness of the stores and ladies' rooms. some places got it right. >> service was excellent. she gave me a guide, a gift receipt. >> other places, well, she got some of them -- she thought some of them were not so good. the crux it was such a shambles -- >> it was such a shambles. >> find out which were the best and which ones did not cut it. >> now, your 11 insta-weather + forecast with chief meteorologist tom tasselmyer. >> some rain continuing into the area tonight and tomorrow morning. it will taper off a bit toward the middle of the week. it looks another weather system will be approaching by thanksgiving. for now, occasional rain continuing overnight. heavier showers are east of the day now. lighter showers extend west of
pantry. lisa stark has more on the controversial additive bpa and what it means. >> reporter: consume's union put 19 products under the microscope. they found a wide range of result. little or no in juice bock boxes or infant formula. and what they considered high levels in green beans of the vegetable soup. >> the bpa is in the food itself. we don't think consumers should be exposed to levels causing harm in the animal studies. >> reporter: it is used in lining of tin cans and plastic such as baby bottles. some studies show it is linked to diabetes. consumer concern has topped baby manufacturer of bottles to dump it. >> i'm wondering if i should buy the food for our kid. it is our kids we are talking about. >> reporter: some manufacturers are pushing back saying the chemical is the best around for food preservation and they insist there are studies that show the levels found in foods are safe. >> reporter: the chemical industry is counter acting the findings. >> reporter: consumer union admits what they consider unsafe is 20,000 below standards . >>> nice day then the clouds rolled i
day. i am lisa robinson. >> she also visited the toes art -- toys r us store, and she shot a j.c. penney in glen burning. she gave them a b. >> now your forecast with chief meteorologist tom castelmyer. >> we have picked up another .1% of an inch in rain. -- .1 inch of rain. some fog forming as well. the temperature barely moved under thick clouds. 48 for the low, 52 for the high temperature. of or 40's to the north and west of baltimore. -- upper 40's to the north and west. holding around 50 in many areas on the eastern shore. western maryland, they are at 41 degrees. hancock, heading out west is 49. leonard town at 49 degrees. sunrise forecast -- some clouds, pettifog, 45 to 50 with a light -- like east wind. -- and patchy fog. maybe the klaus get a chance to thin a little tomorrow. -- maybe that clouds the chance to thin a little tomorrow. this next weather system will rapidly approached tomorrow and it will bring us some showers. if you are traveling, snow showers being generated from minneapolis to chicago, cleveland up into buffalo and detroit. clouds and low clouds and f
to customer service. lisa robinson the planes -- explains. >> hopefully you will have good luck, but that was not always the case. >> we sent her to a dozen stores in the baltimore area to make purchases and give us for overall opinion of the experience, including the help she received and the cleanliness of the waiting rooms. some got it right. >> service was excellent. she gave me a little bag and a gift receipt. >> other places, well, she thought some of them were not so good. >> i would have walked up the door. such a shambles. >> we went to see which secret shoppers want the best, and which did not cut it. >> thank you. a new mutation in the h1n1 flu virus, and health officials are concerned. how a changing swine flu could change the way doctors treat the out by -- outbreaks. plus, why some students received out by -- outbreaks. plus, why some students received a tool of ..when your nose is raw and sore. plain tissue can make it burn even more. but mom knows there's puffs plus... ...with the magic of three. soothing lotion with a touch of shea butter, aloe and e. plain tiss
>> welcome to "11 news sunday morning." i'm lisa robinson. top stories in just a moment. first, a look outside with meteorologist john collins. >> beautiful morning. absolutely beautiful. chilly, but not as cold as yesterday. we're doing this in steps and getting this to a level that we're probably not going to see much more of because we're getting deeper into autumn and approaching winter as the days get shorter. it's just over -- well, the days are getting shorter. 18 hours of sunlight. 18 hours of sunlight stuck in there. anyway, the days are getting shorter, and there is less time to enjoy what we see here. druid hills park. our view overlooking its park. radar doesn't have much to show around here. stormy weather out in the northern plains. also unsettled weather in the gulf of mexico and the caribbean. that's all because of hurricane ida. we'll dach about that and will ida get close? the forecast is just ahead. >> and america and the american people won today. >> the house of representatives passes a historic health care reform to provide coverage to millions more americ
captioning institute, inc. ---www.ncicap.org--- >> i'm lisa robinson. >> i'm deborah weiner. >> first let's go to john collins with the weather. >> i had to escape the window this morning. there is a bit of a chill in the morning this morning. temperatures are right around freezing. upper 20's. but other than the chill, and that's, you know, kind of seasonal relief, you can expect that this time of year, it is beautiful outside. the wind has gone away. a little storm to us. i don't want to call it a storm, but the weather disturbance is rain and snow out in the midwest. rain and snow in the valley is coming into the valley. up north of that, wisconsin and minnesota, some snow. we'll talk about the forecast and how all of that out there treats us here eventually coming up. >> a baltimore tradition came alive last night. it is the miracle on 34th street. hamden flipped the switch on holiday street lights. >> this year a warning for those going to see the display. do not fall victim to a scam. kim dacey splains. -- explains. >> 34th street is aballets again. -- is ablaze again. i like them.
. >> troubling either way. >> absolutely. >> this raises so many questions, so let's bring in lisa bloom. good morning, lisa. >> good morning. >> why wouldn't the doctor be forced to have a dna test to prove or disprove the couple's allegations that set biological father? >> well, first there was the civil case and the couple in that case could have asked the judge while the case was ongoing to order a dna test, but that case settled so that disposed of it. then the department of public health came energy understand my reading of their rules they did have the authority to order the dna test and they simply failed to do so. so that's baffling to me. perhaps they knew something that we in the press don't know, perhaps dr. ramaley is not able to have children. i don't know. but it's very hard for me it understand why they would not order him to do the dna test to get to the bottom of had. in anything, to protect other people, other patients in his practice. >> even if he is not the father, he still made a mistake, he in-accept natured this woman with the wrong sperm. are you surprised that there
it comes to customer service. lisa robinson explains. >> hopefully you'll have great customer service this holiday shopping season. but that wasn't always the case for our secret shopper. with the i-team hidden camera rolling we sent her to a dozen stores in the baltimore area. she'll make purchases and then give us her overall opinion of the experience, including the help she received and the cleanliness of the stores and ladies' rooms. some places got it right. >> service was excellent. i told her it was a gift. she gave me a little bag, a gift receipt. absolutely pleasant. >> other places? well, she thought some of them weren't so good. >> i would walk out the door. it's in such a shambles, this store. >> see which were the best and which ones didn't cut it in the annual i-team customer service test. for the 11 news i-team, i'm lisa robinson. >> 6:20. another check on weather and traffic is straight ahead. >> also, after a tough loss to one of the best teams in the league, the ravens now face a do or die situation for the rest of the season. if they hope to make it to the playoffs.
to religion victim. -- lisa nowak apologized to her allegedly it down. -- her alleged victim. >> i believe she came here to murder me and i believe she never thought she would get caught. >> nowak pled the guilty to felony burglary of a car and misdemeanor battery >> i do you plead? >> guilty. >> she had originally been charged with two felonies, attempted kidnapping and burglary, which could have led to life in prison. she is accused of attacking a woman in a bizarre love triangle. shipman scribe hal nowak hunted her down and attacked her. --shipman described how nowak hunted her down and attacked her. nowak allegedly stalked her to a parking lot and then pepper sprayed her. the judge sentenced nowak to one-year probation and ordered her to have no contact with shipman or offlinoffelieine. >> she also must complete an eight-hour and your management class and pay restitution and court costs and write a sincere letter of apology to shipman. >> it is a late season tropical system. ida hit the shore this afternoon and could be in our region for the next days to come. you can see this area of low
here in maryland. lisa robinson is in the studio with that story. >> the task force is a government appointed, but independent panel of doctors and scientists and it is not -- does not set federal policy. he is worried about how insurance groups might use that the recommendations. >> women need and deserve the most accurate medical advice about detecting their health. >> no one knows that better than 51-year-old pamela smith. she was diagnosed with cancer at 47. she has been cancer-free for four years. >> it saved my life, a routine mammogram, which i started at the age of 40. do not listen to this task force. >> congressman elijah cummings talked to experts. bankers from and to get annual mammograms despite the finding last week by the task force. it issued recommendations sangamon not at risk for breast cancer need not schedule their first mammogram until they turn 50. >> for the average woman out there, we still strongly recommend that you have a screening mammogram every year beginning at age 40. >> congressman cummings says he is doing what he can to make sure that the task for
retailers. lisa robinson explains. hopefully you'll have great customer service this holiday shopping season. but that wasn't always the case for our secret shopper. with the i-team hidden camera rolling we sent her to a dozen stores in the baltimore area. she'll make purchases and then give us her overall opinion of the experience, including the help she received and the cleanliness of the stores and ladies' rooms. some places got it right. >> service was excellent. i told her it was a gift. she gave me a little bag, a gift receipt. absolutely pleasant. >> other places? well, she thought some of them weren't so good. >> i would walk out the door. it's in such a shambles, this store. >> see which were the best and which ones didn't cut it in the annual i-team customer service test. >> thank you. 5:22. 27 degrees on tv hill. coming up, another look at your morning commute with traffic and weather together. >> also, beer lovers rejoice. a local brewery is hitting a popular restaurant chain in maryland. we'll tell you where and when you can find it. >> and don't forget to e e-mail your answer t
to approach somebody you have a lot of about top level job openings ac coring to dr. lisa, a sociology professor who has studied. >> for men they would get a tap on the shoulder, somebody would come up to them and say i heard about this opening, either in that organization or someone swr else. for women that happens less often. they would find the next job through formal channels. >> like advertisements or we shall sites but women with change that with network, seek without contacts and positions above their own ask communicating directly about what they want. >> letting other people know about their achievements, as they happen. >> building a large professional network doesn't guarantee job opportunities. for, finding a new contacts led to suck glees it is important no matter what to have other people within your infrastructure or within our surrounding within your environment to help support you. >> in washington, i'm samantha hayes. >>> remember, abc 2 news is working for you to help you land a job, all you have to do is go to our financial survival guide. when you get there, you wi
immediately and find an alternative sleeping space for the baby. abc's lisa stark has much more on this important story. good morning, lisa. >> reporter: good morning, robin. this is one of the recalled storkcraft cribs. here's the problem. the cribs that are recalled have the drop-down sides like this. but the mechanism can break. it can leave a dangerous gap here that the baby can get trapped in. and in fact, there have been four deaths, infants, ages 6 months old to 9 months old. this largest recall ever, raises alarms on a product parents count on to keep kids safe. the storkcraft cribs have a side that drops down, making it easy to reach the baby. but the plastic mechanism can fail. it's also possible to mistakenly install the side upside down. either situation can lead to disaster. a deadly gap between the mattress and crib. >> we have had over 100 incidents. and 15 entrapments and 4, tragic deaths of infants caught in between the drop-side and the mattress. these infants have suffocated. >> reporter: nearly 150,000 of the dangerous cribs carry the fisher price name. the r
astronaut pleads guilty to attacking a romantic rival. lisa nowak has one year probation forego after shipman with pepper splay. drove from texas to florida wearing a diaper to get there quickly to confront shipman. today in a florida court of law she apologizeed to shipman. >> i am glad i have the opportunity to apologize to you ms. shipman in person. i am sincerely sorry for causing fear, and misunderstanding, and all of the intense public exposure you have suffered. i hope very much that we can all move forward from this with privacy and peace. >> witnesses in the courtroom say shipman didn't take too kindly to the apology and shipman claims the incident destroyed her career. >> you have experienced lawyers on both sides. who brought their many years of picking juries to the plate. >> will the jury help or hurt mayor sheila dixon? at her trial. find out what our legal expert said next on on fox 45 news at 10:00. >> and tonight,'s execution of john allen m >> john allen muhammad, the man convicted in the d of the c sniper attacks executed this evening. jeff abell live from jarrett v
. he will be tried in a military court. >>> former astronaut lisa nowak, pleads guilty in the nasa nowak love triangle. >> nowak pleaded guilty to one felony, burglary of a car, and one misdemeanor, battery. nowak agreed to the playplea today -- the plea today to avoid a trial scheduled for next month. she is accused of driving straight from houston to orlando, bringing along diapers so she wouldn't have to stop for the bathroom. she went to confront a romantic rival. shipman said she is still recovering. >>> an upscale new york high school is put on lockdown when a gunman takes the principal hostage. >> reporter: s.w.a.t. teams surrounded a sprawling middle and high school campus in upstate new york, with guns drawn, as a student made a daring escape from a window. the drama unfolded just before 8:00 a.m. at hissing mountain school at pine plains. about 90 miles north of new york city. town officials say former student, 42-year-old christopher craft, walked into the building and took the principal hostage. >> he produced a firearm, after he got into the school. and then he barrica
pleading guilty to attacking a romantic rival. lisa nowak pled guilty to felony burglary, a car, and misdemeanor battery to avoid a trial for next month. nowak confronted colleen shipman over their relationship with a man. she had originally been charged with attempted kidnapping and burglary. >>> overdue books, uncollected fines and missing hardbacks worth thousands on the internet. that's how police track down a ring of library thieves. gigi barnett reports, the thefts began in prince george's county and crossed several county lines. >> reporter: police say a library card became a passport for a ring of thieves. stealing more than $87,000 worth of books. >> police say each one of these suspects had a part in the library ring. in all, 12 suspects from several counties who would check out expensive library books. never return them and sell them online or to used book stores. police say the connection wasn't clear until. >> they started looking at various individuals, connecting addresses. connecting associations, such as relatives, roommates, addresses. >> reporter: now, 822 boo
correspondent lisa stark on the phone with us. what do we know? >> reporter: well, chris, what we know is that a computer that inputs flight plans, electronically so the controllers have those flight plans apparently there's some glitch in that computer right now. it may have failed entirely. other reports there's just something going on that the faa can't figure out but the bottom line is that no electronic flight plans are being put into this computer. that means controllers have to input all the flight information manually and that is causing delays nationwide everywhere around the country according to the faa. >> lisa, any sense of how long or whether or not you should even go to the airport? >> reporter: well, i think flights are taking off but they are being delayed. you might want to check with your carrier to see how delayed. what we're told by controllers, for example, is that at new york's jfk airport they're operating only at about 40% to 50% of efficiency. they're have to go to spread planes out in the air about twice the distance that they usually do so there is definitely
what i was trained to do, doing what any soldier would do. >> lisa, you re-united with your daughter on saturday evening. i want to show a bit of that reunion. then we'll talk about it. >> oh, baby girl! >> i know, lisa, you were very worried about amber. you had talked to her right before the shooting. then for hours you had no idea how she was, if she had been hit, if she had been killed. but you knew something horrible had happened. what did it mean to you to finally hold her in your arms? >> it was an awesome feeling. she needed me there and we got there as soon as we could. and i don't think i want to leave her now. >> amber, i understand that you are going to be meeting with the president when he comes to ft. hood tomorrow for the memorial service. what's your reaction to that? >> it's crazy. i always wanted to meet him. it's always been i guess a dream of mine to just meet any president really. but i wish it could be under different circumstances. but it's something i'm looking forward to. >> now he's certainly wanting to meet you. just to conclude, amber, i know you're being
. [captioning made possible by constellation energy] >> hello and welcome to 11 news sunday morning. i'm lisa robinson. >> and i'm deborah wiener. first a look outside with meteorologist john coinls. hey, john. >> a little different out there, warmer, not raining. >> yes. >> there might be a couple of patches of fog and all, but our temperatures now are where they were yesterday morning at this time. the big difference is that there's no moisture in the atmosphere. >> yes, thank you. >> so let's take a look outside at our h.d. doppler radar, and, you know, the proof is in the pudding. yesterday, there were still some sprinkles and a little drizzle and a couple of spotty showers around the area with most of the rain up in new england, a lot of rain up in new england. well, this morning it's still raining in new england, but we've shaken most of the cloud cover. again, there may be a few patches of fog and here there. temperatures are solidly in the 50's around the region, a few suburban 40's are possible, but no rain nearby. that is the good news to finish out the weekend. and wait till you bh
in it it stretches the lip and makes it look taught. >> let's show another celebrity. this is lisa rinna. tell us what you think about the before and after here. >> well, i think you can see this is a more natural volume for the face. and over here, you can see that there's a lot of swelling because silicone swells the lip. and this particular celebrity did her upper and lower lip, and they're almost the same size. and nature gives us usually a slightly larger lower lip and slightly smaller upper lip. we want to respect that. >> which you did respect when you did kristin's lips yesterday. show us -- they look great. but show us what the trick is achieving this look. >> so we call that the colbert lip. and what that means is we want to respect the natural volume of her face. and she has a great face, a model face. >> this is her before. she wanted a little -- what did you want? >> just a little bit on my upper lip. >> we did a tad on the upper and maybe a skirt in the lower. and her lips look completely natural. no one would know she had her lips done and she gets a little bit of volume. most peop
. welcome back. i am alison starling. we have a look at your traffic and weather. we begin with lisa baden. >> there have been two separate crashes o the baltimore washington parkway. leaving greenbelt, you'll find slow traffic. this is at wisconsin avenue after the beltway. you see those of flashing lights. southbound wisconsin avenue at the exit for nih. that is causing a backup from shady grove road. we have a beautiful picture from newschopper 7. they're looking at springfield traffic right at the mixing bowl. not to babbling springfield up to six 26. -- not too bad leaving springfield up to 66. >> in little cooler in rockville. 48 in chantilly. temperatures will climb into the low 60's. we will have sunshine. it will be it sunshine-filled afternoon. it will be comfortable weather for the next two days. the next system will move in on sunday. plenty of sunshine. cooler for sunday with rain by sunday night. >> thank you. >>> the murder of a man in wheaton may have been over child custody. maria blanco was arrested and charged in the death of samuel chacon. his body was found in the midd
something is going on. >> interesting. let's go to our new phone line, lisa in baltimore, good morning. >> good morning. >> what do you think. she is going to be acquitted. >> yes, she should be acquitted. they should take her out of that seat. she should be a mayor setting an example. she did the wrong thing. they should find her guilty and get her out of the seat and put someone else in it there honestly. >> thank you for your call this morning. thank all of you for your calls and comments on the facebook page and twirt. twitter. can you keep them coming. they may air on news at 10:00. you can post your comments, send us a tweet or a text to 45203, enter fox 45a for yes, and fox 45b for no and as i said, your response might air tonight on the news at 10:00. >>> spending christmas with larry the cable guy. the guest confirmed for his holiday special. >>> it's so tasty, i can't wait. >> the clever cleaver brothers show us how >>> pull those pork chops out of the freezer. you will need them to make this week's clever cleaver brother's recipe. >> thanks for joining us again for another f
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